Curse

Stop The Storm · Nov 29, 2009, 07:37 PM // 19:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reformed

I guess this probably depends on what you are using to clear it. Back in the day the tank had a mountain of bonds, personal buffs and Symbiosis to jack their hp into orbit. Unless the monk dozed off there was plenty of room for HB/HP spam when you've got 1600+hp. The current way I suspect you are doing it with dual perma tanks probably is a lot more delicate in Veil but faster. City has just never been an issue IMO. So long as the tank is balling correctly and the group follows the spike Margos die fast.

i find foundry alot easier to tank without bonds than city to tank with no bonds

Zurgunt · Nov 30, 2009, 02:30 AM // 02:30

Foundry is a difficult area. Most of PuGs will fail trying to do the first quest. Only well prepared teams with some knowledge about DoA can complete it. But practice makes prfect. Some runners (600/famine/smite teams) have mastered to complete it within half an hour on average (with best times even 22min).

From economic point of view: Division of labour (aka economic specialisation) is a feature of modern, captialistic markets (including GW market). People that specialize in some narrow activity (for eg. running Foundry). will earn more money than people that do many diffrent things. Supply and demand rule is the answer to the question why run prices are so high. High demand during ZB and few runners makes runs so expensive.

But completed zaishen bounty is not all the run provides. Besides zaishen coins, the it also also gives 2 titan gems (worth about 15k), about 2k gold coins, 4100 lightbringer points, chances of getting very nice green weapons (like Divine Ghostly Staff or Aegis of Arrgh). The running team kills 350 foes and because you remain in radar range, you can get loot from all of them (including all HM stuff like inscribable gold weapons, skill tomes, lockpicks). Thats not all, taking the run completes one point of Mallyx the Unyielding quest allowing you to complete the Nightfall elite mission.

It's also worth mentioning that the running team is composed of three people. That means they can run only 5 people at once and they must divide between them what they earn. 30k times 5 leechers divided by 3 runners gives 50k per runner. Lets compare that with a popular Gloom run provided by many assassins. Assuming the run is 10k (the lowest price I've seen during Greater Darkness ZB), the runner gets 60k. It's more than Foundry runners would earn, but the Gloom run is much easier to do and to learn (there are several Gloom videos available on the net while there is not a single one showing full Foundry run). Foundry runners won't decrease their price. They would rather start running Gloom!

In my opinion the above deep analysis shows that 30k for the Foundry run is fair price.

pumpkin pie · Nov 30, 2009, 02:38 AM // 02:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trip555

snipped
When I joined a Hard Mode group today the first thing I asked was "Did you ever beat this mission in Hard Mode" and surprise, surprise nobody did.
snipped

One of the reason I play Zaishen quests/ missions etc is because I don't already have those missions done in HM, during the time when those particular missions are offered in Zaishen missions, is the best time to get pugs. So off course some players have not done them in HM.

On the otherhand, players who have already done them in HM and still go to do it for the coins .... hrmz.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zurgunt

snipped

In my opinion the above deep analysis shows that 30k for the Foundry run is fair price.

sarcastic mode on
^^ no you can't ! and its not fair! it has to be nerf! how dare you do that below half and hours! ITS GODMODE! NERF NERF NERF!

doomfodder · Nov 30, 2009, 10:02 PM // 22:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rose Rune

Well the fact is unless you have a knowledge of what to expect their and have put some thought into what you'd want people to run you're going to fail. I do Full DoA runs on a daily basis with my guild and it's just something that really can't be pugged. If you're wanting to do it get some friends you know well or join an uber leetsaucse guild

Because THAT'S the way ANET WANTS you to play their game. ANET does NOT WANT you to PUG ELITE areas. If ANET WANTED you to PUG Elite areas, an easier way to form PUGS would exist (rather than just a party window when you're in the same town/server at the same time). PUGS are an anachronism from long before heros came out. PUGS in ELITE areas fail because the play in those areas REQUIRES tactical teamwork to achieve & most players have been relying on H/H "skills/playstyles" for so long that they CAN'T play cooperatively with those high damage swarming mobs. Gone are the days of aggro management without a perma, & soon that will be gone too....

Mangione · Dec 02, 2009, 03:20 AM // 03:20

there was the Zaishen Bounty for the 4 Horsemen yesterday.
I thought that more people in ToA would mean more people willing to complete UW, I decided to give it a try and see if I could pug my way to Dhuum (the last thing that is left to me to see in GW PVE, beside titles, which I'll never care enough about to put a good effort, and beside the BMP, which I didn't buy and I don't care about either).

Well... I've met 3 teams before going to do something else (non-GW related) out of frustration.
1st team: 5 of them never completed uw before. They insisted to go HM. And they wanted to try a full run too. We failed at the reaper of the labyrinth. ("Don't take the quests!" and three-freaking-three newbs of them took all the three-freaking-three quests).
2nd team: different people, almost same unexperience. The "perma" forgot the armor with the Shadow Art runes (or whatever) in the xunlai chest. The team says "oh, let's try anyway. I'm guardian of this, and vanquisher of that". Given the outcome, I guess this transltes into: "Let's fail anyway". HM + UW is unforgiving.
3rd team: We go straight to 4h, but at the chaos plains, some of the team insist on killing every single Banished Dream Rider (and subsequent waves of MindBlade Spectres), until, after almost 30 minutes of this crap, one warrior aggroes too many enemies, causing a party wipe. (half of the party began running around like headless chickens).

This is the dialogue between two of my team mates in ToA, team chat, before starting. (Not the exact words, but almost there).
Wise guy (WG) and Greedy guy (DA)
DA : "HM or nothing. I leave."
WG: "HM + UW + PUGS = fail."
DA: "HM gives more coins."
WG: "that's just a small bunch of coins, not worth the increased chance of failure"
DA: "I don't care! I have too much stuff, I really need the big pack, it costs a lot of coins."

This "DA" (DumbAss) had just declared, few minutes before this brilliant insight, that he never went past the chamber in uw. In NM.

Yes, being greedy is the cause of failure in GW (and given the kind of failure, I believe that those guys are a failure in RL too).

bloodvayne · Dec 02, 2009, 04:35 AM // 04:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shadowspawn X

Well in September and October I pugged my alts to legendary guardians.
I also pugged Dhuum twice with np if you know how to play you only need like one other person who is good. The others can just follow and the grp can be successful. But I have not pugged doa so maybe its the exception.

I've PuGged DoA, so nope.
Recently too, no Ursan >.>

Celtic Bane · Dec 02, 2009, 05:14 AM // 05:14

I had a PUG team, and we did it our first try easily with no problems in HM. But, it was a well balanced group.

glacialphoenix · Dec 02, 2009, 04:13 PM // 16:13

Quote:

One of the reason I play Zaishen quests/ missions etc is because I don't already have those missions done in HM, during the time when those particular missions are offered in Zaishen missions, is the best time to get pugs. So off course some players have not done them in HM.

I think the issue is less 'I haven't done these in HM' and more 'I'm totally not equipped to handle HM because this is a brand-new character and I unlocked HM on my main but I'm still gonna do HM anyway because of the zcoins!' I mean, if you just dusted off your mule because of zcoins and he's underequipped and underskilled, you might want to really reconsider that HM.

Applies to any zquest.

N1ghtstalker · Dec 02, 2009, 05:33 PM // 17:33

greed is a human instinct
nuff said

Eragon Zarroc · Dec 03, 2009, 02:26 AM // 02:26

meh, there may be failure, but without the quest, there wouldn't hardly be any pugs at all!

it's either no pugs or pugs that fail ;-) not much middle ground